---------  CONTINUED  ---------


 May 05 2005

    Sir Roger,

This is really great. I have served the W3SZ-Linrad_CD to four PC's
and they all went straight into Linrad-operation. Another four PC's
are waiting impatiently in queue.

Three PC's showed immediate audio input/output with the MB-integrated
VIA/Intel circuits. The remaining EPoX 4B2M+ board required a scan of
the sound parameters (U on the 'Linrad' start-up screen): sound would
work after setting the '00' configuration for read 'Only' (O/W-select).
Alsaconf identified the integrated audio as Intel 82801BA/BAM AC'97
Audio rev(12) [i810 driver].

Suggestions:

Roger: your description http://www.nitehawk.com/w3sz/linrad_knoppix.htm
shows how to make the Live_CD. Everyone may want to have their own variant
of such a disk. However, I tried to install the Live_CD on the hard disk,
as it may be the most solid and adaptable "final" situation. However, I
was not able to find 'Linrad' back after installing. Possibly I missed
part of the documentation relating to the release of your CD.

One immediate improvement that could be done to save a lot of downloading
time among the projected number of hundreds of users, could be to do the
usual apt-get update/upgrade procedure, and make a new version of the CD.

After I installed the CD on hard disk, the upgrade required about 260 MB
of Knoppix (actually Debian) files (the usual improvements as the result
of ongoing Linux-development). 'Linrad' does not need these downloads to
operate, but if the PC is used for the future support of 'Linrad', then
it is good that the latest and safest tools are up-to-date. Certainly
new (Debian) downloads will be available almost daily, but the initial
transfer volume would be in low megabytes with a new May-2005 CD_issue.

Regarding the quest for 'Linrad' after installing W3SZ-Knoppix-Linrad,
I did 'updatedb' and 'locate linrad', and I got a load of references to
files and directories. However, even in root-mode I could not change to
the indicated directories. This is certainly still due to my ignorance
with the finest details of the Linux-system.

For HomePNA-users under this Knoppix version (and other distro-releases
after kernel 2.6.8) I recommend to issue the following commands as root:
'rmmod pcnet32'  'modprobe pcnet32 homepna=1'  and subsequent initiation
of Network Card DHCP services (Yes) via the "Fat Penguin" (lower toolbar).
This can be embedded in the configuration files, but I have not yet gone
through that exercise. Probably I will first check out the other 4 PC's.

                                73, "Zaba"  OH1ZAA/2


P.S. As far as I can recall I only remember numerous failures with ALSA
     in combination with the Delta44-card. Any http:-link to one success?



   Hi, Zaba,

I am late for work, so more later, but:

Because the 'Live" installion uses a ramdisk, the directory structure  
changes from CD-Live access to HD-access.  I will do something about 
this  when I have time.  I was on call all night, got little sleep, 
so I can't  remember the structure exactly, but I think after HD install 
you just go  to either / or /home or /home/knoppix on the HD installation 
as I have it  set up [to find the linrad-01.33 directory.  The effect of 
this is that  ./lin and the other scripts I set up for finding linrad 
don't work in the  HD. I will eventually fix this too if I can figure 
out how.

Now, off to work for the last 8 hours of my 32-hour workday.   ;)

73,

Roger
W3SZ 

   May 06


Hello all,

The initial tour with the first W3SZ_Live_CD has been completed.

After the Asus A7V133-VM motherboard there have been three more
successful boots: Abit IC7, Abit NF7 and EPoX 4B2M+. All these
have integrated sound, but a stand-alone AGP-card. These boards
are applicable for immediate 48 kHz I/Q-sampling [actually
they show a "should never happen" ERROR 1027 in setad.c when
trying to configure for the 1 RX-channel mode]. Dual channel
(I/Q) seems to be the only option for built-in sound.

I will send the more complete Data to Rein's archives, but it
will take some time, as nothing has been documented on paper
(just the tour done; now its fading memory). I had problems
with the Abit BP6 (probably AGP-card) and Abit KD7A (sound).

Also the ACER notebook would stay dark with 'Linrad', though
all of Knoppix works well. Similarly a fast Fujitsu-Siemens
(details unknown) at OH2LYJ's failed to show 'Linrad', but
it was the first PC with a DVI-output connection to the LCD-
monitor (if that has any impact relative to SVGALIB?). Also
it had a wireless keyboard/mouse, which was all recognized
with Knoppix, but may be an "issue" for libvga.config ....

While touring I may hit some more PC's. CD-booting is not
intrusive so it is easy to find candidates. But it is more
difficult to find out quickly what the hardware is inside
(the privacy of the owners has to be respected). Please
tell us if this novel form of tourism yields new results!

                   73,  "Zaba"  OH1ZAA/FOoZA/ZF2KZ

  May 6 2005 

   Roger-san,

Thanks for all additional remarks regarding the use of the Live_CD.
It seems that a 32 hour shift is not enough for you, so you like to
taper off with another 32 for 'Linrad'. I know the feeling, but I had
to quit that already twenty years ago; you seem to get a fast RES[E]T!


More suggestions to the future W3SZ_Linrad_CD_release:

With the (apt-get) updated/upgraded packages there will be just a very
slight increase of ISO-size, as most of those are corrected replacements.

It was fun to see some boards to start up readily with the 48000 Hz A/D-
and 8000 D/A-rates on the integrated audio permitting independent rates
(or I made a typing mistake just before noticing it; skipping the "4"?).


Observation on the CR's or Newlines:

When I first installed the original Knoppix 3.8.1 (without Linrad) on
the ASUS PC, then - after additional installs of Linrad and SVGALIB -
I noticed the build-up of carriage returns in the graphics console
window where the ./linrad-command was initially issued. This became
evident only after stopping 'Linrad' (ESC).

If I run 'Linrad' only for a few minutes, then I see a short scrolling
sequence in the Console-window, before the # becomes available. If the
application ('Linrad') is running overnight, then there will be minutes
and minutes of scrolling (which is actually invisible as the lines are
identical), and I am not sure if the # eventually appears. It just makes
me wonder where all these CR's (or newlines?) are stored, and whether it
will jam the application/PC at one point in time (will it ask for swap?).
I don't know Linux-enough to make other guesses, but I feel that this is
rather a hidden feature that has been overlooked, and can be corrected.
This is something that Leif/SM5BSZ is surely able to comment on...

As Roger pointed out there is a strong case of "Don't mess with Texas"
in the lilo/grub installation features. If you do not have a previous
install of Linux on the hard disk, then it is probably safest to go for
an install (regarding lilo/grub) into the MBR. Once I thought it was
safer to go for a lilo in the(?) partition, and I lost all of Windows.
Fortunately I could later restore Win2k by editing partition numbering
in boot.ini (not a Linux-file but indeed related to Windows). Summary:
I have never had a problem with lilo/grub in the MBR either in the case
of adding a first Linux install (resulting in dual-boot with DOS/Win2k);
neither have I had problems when writing over a previous Linux install
(while wiping out other brands like SuSE). I can not comment on what
happens if there needs to be another functional parallel Linux besides
the new Knoppix install. I trust that Roger's instructions cover that
case (with Texas looking over your shoulder).

Roger: I was already su (super-user) when doing #knoppix-installer,
and I got the contents of your CD on the hard disk, but as explained
before, even after 'updatedb' & 'locate linrad' I get a huge listing
of all files and directories, but I cannot move into the listed dir's
and 'Linrad' cannot be started from anywhere with either ./linrad or
./lin ... While I'm "root" I expect to have admittance "anywhere"...
I will surely make a new install, or I will do it the "old fashioned"
way to keep up my practice with 'make install' and './configure'

                                   73, "Zaba"  OH1ZAA/NNoY


P.S. If 'updatedb' builds its information from scripts rather than
     from "physical" (existent) files then it is a strong reminder
     that Linux is solidly different from DOS/Windows (however, I'm
     not eager to express my appreciation of this specific "virtue")
     [above comment derived from script-remarks, not cross-checked]. 


  May 6

    Hi Zaba, Roger and all,

I am really happy for the Knoppix CD and the discussions
about it. Thanks Roger!

I have had mails from hams who claim they have spent more 
than a month struggling with Linux and finally written
to me saying "I will skip Linrad - the Linux stuff is too
complicated for me".

The Knoppix CD is one way to solve the problem:-)

The other way is to make a MS Windows version and this
is my focus presently. (With very slow progress....)


>> Also the ACER notebook would stay dark with 'Linrad', though
>> all of Knoppix works well.

I tried the Knoppix on two computers and both of them stay dark.
The reason is that the horizontal/vertical sync rates are
wrong. In this situation, press S on the black screen.
(Another monitor would have shown the Linrad main menu)
and get into the svgalib text mode which most probably
would give a nice selection of screens. Try them (and find that
most of them, if not all, make the screen black).

The solution is to reboot, look at the screen before answering
the question about starting Linrad. The correct hor/vert sync 
ranges are probably written to the boot screen. Take a note 
what the values are and edit libvga.config so it contains the 
correct numbers:-)

It must be possible to write a script that extracts the sync
rates from the boot log file and pastes them into libvga.config.
I think this would reduce the "black screen" problem.



73  Leif

Sir Roger,

Great to hear the intermediate report of your "backgrounding"
for the next issue of the W3SZ-Linrad_Knoppix-Live_CD. Stand-
alone use of the Live_CD is of course the main objective in
order to ensure a quick access to "Linrad" for a wide public.

The "non-invasive" storage of a few small configuration files
onto any DOS/Win partitions would be desirable (referring to
W5UC's questions) and according to the Knoppix 3.8 approach.

Of secondary importance is the transfer of the Live_CD to the
hard disk. I noticed a few more things in the system after the
transfer. Using your documentation with the first release I was
finally able to start 'Linrad' from the /UNIONFS directory on
the CD. The problem was that 'locate' did not indicate the
/UNIONFS directory explicitly and therefore I could not find
the files. However, after the ('knoppix-installer') transfer
to the hard disk 'locate' yields only /root/linrad-01.33 and
there are only two files in that directory; 'locate' result:

/etc/reS.d/S80w3szlinrad
/root/linrad-01.33
/root/linrad-01.33/linboot.img
/root/linrad-01.33/vmlinuz

With more Linux-experience I could maybe use these for starting
up 'Linrad'? I have not tried to install the CD after booting
from HD, to try to start 'Linrad from there, but that is a bit
contradictory to the idea of an exclusive HD-install, anyway.

Your first Live_CD version allows full usage of the Internet
services in graphics mode, but after the transfer to hard disk,
there is no detection any network cards (either HomePNA eth0
or Ethernet eth1); the fat penguin informs of no detectable
hardware for Network configuration.

Otherwise I got rid of the HomePNA startup problem through the
purchase of an A-link HomePNA-Ethernet converter, so that the
network looks as if it were a genuine 100 Mbit/s Ethernet. It
means that the PC-needs to have an Ethernet port, which is
usually immediately recognized by the 2.6.x -kernels. However,
this will be only beneficial after the transfer of the W3SZ_
Live_CD will include all network features of Knoppix 3.8.1

                                     73, "Zaba"  OH1ZAA/2




At 00:59 8.5.2005 -0400, W3SZ wrote:

> Hello, all,
>
> I have made a new knoppix.iso and will upload it and send out a note after
> I have tested it a bit more.
>
> This version differs from the first in that:
>
> 1.  I eliminated games to make more space [and used up the space thus
> created, as noted below].
>
> 2.  I updated and upgraded package versions as suggested.
>
> 3.  I changed the startup script by
>         a.  providing a loop so that one doesn't need to enter XWindows after
> exiting Linrad
>         b.  providing an option to use joe to edit 'libvga.config' by just
> selecting a menu item
>         c.  allowing one to cycle thru choices to run Linrad or edit
> libvga.config as many times as desired before leaving the loop to enter
> XWindows.
>
>         On my machine here, anyway, when I save the configuration and image as
> previously described, my altered libvga.config file remains as I altered
> it when I reboot.  This is nice.
>
> 4.      I put the oss install files in the directory /home/knoppix/oss but did
> not install oss, as doing so would remove the alsa sound modules from the
> kernel, and I do not want this to happen since I use my installation to
> make the Live-CDs.
>
> This is important because I therefore did NOT install OSS to make sure it
> works.  I downloaded the NONREGPARM version and put it on the disk, as
> this is what my Debian installation used IIRK.  I hope this is correct.
>
> I will upload the new CD and send out a notice after I try some more to
> break things, and am satisfied that I can't do so.
>
> 73,
>
> ROger
> W3SZ
>
> -- 
> Roger Rehr
> W3SZ
> http://www.qsl.net/w3sz


Beste Rein,

Met Linux is het nu net of we in een Aquarium leven.
We zien wel dat er iets aan de andere kant van het
glas is, maar we kunnen er meestal niet bijkomen.
Ik heb zware problemen met de transfer van Roger's
CD naar de hard drive... problemen met het resultaat.

Wat betreft the Makefile.conf is het niet van belang
wat er in de andere lijnen staat. Het enigste wat er
gedaan moet worden is het # hekje verwijderen aan het
begin van lijn:

              # NO_HELPER = y

dat is alles wat er nodig is voor een succesvolle
'make install'  van SVGALIB (na een 'make clean').
Die SVGA_HELPER_NO en dergelijke hoeven helemaal
niets hiermee te maken hebben, en ik weet ook niet
of ze iets met de VESA te maken hebben. Wat ik wel
weet is, dat als je als gewone user 'linrad' runt,
dan krijg je ondanks het vorige de complaint: "is
svgalib_helper module installed?". 'Linrad' MOET
dus als Superuser gebruikt worden (Only).

             Good luck!     73, "Zaba"  OH1ZAA/2



    This ais a private message from Zaba in Dutch regarding the NO_HELPRER
statement in thebMAkefile.conf file.
   
                                             PA0ZN

At 21:52 8.5.2005 -0700, W6/PAoZN wrote:

> Beste Zaba,
>
> De Zondag is weer over en de tijd vliegt.
> Ik hoop dat je een prettige tocht had gisteren met niet te veel andere auto's
> op de weg.
>
> Om terug te komen op dat NO_HELPER statement.
>
> I kom tot de conclusie dat ik of te oud ben of te stom,  misschien beide.
>
> Op de svgalib home page voor de laatste versie wordt gesprolen over het verband tussen
> nieuwere kernels en de VESA driver die de meeste van ons gebruiken met VESA kaarten
> en dan een zg   NO_HELPER  mode
>
> OK ik kan begrijpen dat een lijn kan xijn
>      NO_HELPER = yes of no
>
> Als je dan in de makeconf,conf  kijkt is er een lijn
>
> SVGA_HELPER_NO      (#)
>
> Spreken we hier over dezelfde parameter of zijn dit 2 verschillende parameters?
>
> Aan het einde van de file is een statement defif ( NO_HELPER ......  )
>
> Laat je ( # ) met rust en voeg je NO_HELPER = yes  toe aan het bestand?
>
> Het is waarschijnlijk een kronkel in mijn hoofd maar ik zien een realtie tussen de twee
> ondanks dat we het 2 vershillende  namen hebben.
> ALs er in dat bestand nog een ander plaats was waar SVGA_HELPER_NO werd
> gebruilt zo het duidelijker zijn voor mij tenminste. ( ! )
>
>
> Zo wat ik doe is het toevoegen van NO_HELPER=yes   ? Dat is de modificatie?
>
> Groeten Rein
>
>
>
    May 9, 2005

Thanks again Roger!

As I stated to Rein in a private mail, with Linux it seems
like we are living in an Aquarium: we see that there is much
on the other side of the glass, but we are not able to reach
it (I think that Mike/W5UC will like this)... [no worries, the
problem is mainly over here: Zaba's ignorance... only 3 years].

Despite reinstalling your first W3SZ-Knoppix.iso onto the HD,
I did not get 'Linrad' running from there (hopefully there
have been no intermediate versions of the *.iso). It complains
about the missing ~linrad-01.33 directory and continues loading
all of the Knoppix graphics. The only positive difference this
time is that all of the Network-stuff works. I did the apt-get
update/upgrade and got 239 new packages in 258 MB downloads
(this all will be ready and waiting for us on your second CD).

Actually I did 'sudo knoppix-installer' from the CD, and did
not take a "Beginner"-configuration, but the option: "just as
on the CD". This means no login when starting Linux (safety!).

During boot from HD it lists about 20 errors relating to mkdir
mentioning UNIONFS and missing ~linrad01.33 directories or files.

The /home/knoppix directory does not hold linrad-01.33 ...
it only shows ('ls'):  Desktop  none  tmp

The prompt looks like:  root@1[knoppix]#

'updatedb' and 'locate' yields the same as described (below)
during the first install to HD... 'locate' also fails to find
anything relating to an installed SVGALIB....

So there is clearly something missing. There is plenty of
KNOPPIX-software on the HD... 'df' lists 2.3 GB of KNOPPIX.
A bit worrying is the listing of 'df' showing the following:

/dev/hda7            (mounted as /)
/dev/root.old        (mounted as /initrd)

Wonder if this  root.old  is creating any confusion...?


All of the above is relating only to one of the many PC's.

The Live_CD is meant for a quick introduction to 'Linrad'
in real-world circumstances. Would I miss anything if I do
it the old way: i.e. install pure Knoppix and add the two:
SVGALIB 1.9.21 and Linrad-01.33 as usual? The only difference
I notice is the far better screen resolution of the Live_CD
Linrad's upon opening the application first time after boot.
Setting screen parameters (S) does not give me a choice of
the finer resolutions (beyond 1024x768) usually with the
private installs of SVGALIB and 'Linrad'.

                            73, "Zaba" OH1ZAA/2


P.S. I noticed the knoppix.img and knoppix.sh files on the
     FAT-drive (C:\ in Windows); so "config-storage" works.



At 13:21 8.5.2005 -0400, W3SZ wrote:

> Hi, Zaba, and all,
>
> First let me say that it turns out that the download bandwidth from Rein's
> site has become so high due to the Knoppix CD that it will cost him
> considerable funds just for what has already been downloaded in the past
> few days.  And the potential cost is open-ended
>
>
> So, because of the cost to Rein of further downloads, I am removing the
> Knoppix.iso from his website.  We cannot ask him to bear those costs.
> Several of us including Rein are looking for alternative sites.  I have
> already spent 4 hours this AM in this search.  If you have any thoughts,
> please let me know.  I had thought there would be a whole bunch of sites
> whose business model was "post here for free downloading, and give us the
> right to send out CD's to those who don't want to/can't download, at the
> price of our choosing" but I haven't found any of those.  They would be
> perfect for our purposes if they existed and had reasonable bandwidth and
> were free of adware, spyware, etc.  I thought mixonix or SwiftCD would fit
> the bill, but they don't appear to.
>
> Please don't start downloading the KnoppixCD from Rein's site now, as you
> will find yourself cutoff in the midst of a download when it disappears
> shortly.
>
> Now to answer Zaba's excellent questions:
>
>
> On Sun, 08 May 2005 05:24:16 -0400, 'Zaba' OH1ZAA  wrote:
>
>>
>> Sir Roger,
>>
>> Great to hear the intermediate report of your "backgrounding"
>> for the next issue of the W3SZ-Linrad_Knoppix-Live_CD. Stand-
>> alone use of the Live_CD is of course the main objective in
>> order to ensure a quick access to "Linrad" for a wide public.
>>
>> The "non-invasive" storage of a few small configuration files
>> onto any DOS/Win partitions would be desirable (referring to
>> W5UC's questions) and according to the Knoppix 3.8 approach.
>
>
> This is already set up and working as a part of the standard Knoppix
> distribution, which I didn't change.  Knoppix will put image files in the
> Windows partition that will not damage anything.  I've outlined it before,
> but here it is again.  When in graphics mode, click on the Fat Penguin.
> Then click "Configure".  THen click "Create a persistent KNOPPIX disk
> image".  Then select your Windows partition [or a linux or other partition
> if you wish] and specifiy the image size.  100MB is standard, I made it
> 200 MB for no particular reason.  To save the configuration, again click
> on the Fat Penguin.  Then click "Configure".  THen click "Save KNOPPIX
> Configuration" and agian you will be presented with a list of disk
> partitions.  Select one.  Don't save with a password, or you will hate
> yourself everytime you have to type it in on booting.
>
> ALL of this works perfectly here, so I don't know what to do if there are
> problems.
>
>
>>
>> Of secondary importance is the transfer of the Live_CD to the
>> hard disk. I noticed a few more things in the system after the
>> transfer. Using your documentation with the first release I was
>> finally able to start 'Linrad' from the /UNIONFS directory on
>> the CD. The problem was that 'locate' did not indicate the
>> /UNIONFS directory explicitly and therefore I could not find
>> the files. However, after the ('knoppix-installer') transfer
>> to the hard disk 'locate' yields only /root/linrad-01.33 and
>> there are only two files in that directory; 'locate' result:
>>
>> /etc/reS.d/S80w3szlinrad
>> /root/linrad-01.33
>> /root/linrad-01.33/linboot.img
>> /root/linrad-01.33/vmlinuz
>>
>> With more Linux-experience I could maybe use these for starting
>> up 'Linrad'? I have not tried to install the CD after booting
>> from HD, to try to start 'Linrad from there, but that is a bit
>> contradictory to the idea of an exclusive HD-install, anyway.
>
>
> When in the 'Live CD' mode, having booted from CD, the important files are
> as follows:
>
> libvga.config that you modify/have modified is in:
> /etc/vga and
> /UNIONFS/etc/vga
> I believe this is a redundant file naming scheme peculiar to the 'Live'
> installation
>
> The original libvga.config file is in
> /KNOPPIX/etc/vga
> This is not alterable.
>
> The Linrad files are in
> /UNIONFS/root/linrad-01.33
>
> The directory /KNOPPIX/root/linrad-01.33 does NOT contain the Linrad files.
>
>
> When one is using the Knoppix installation without the CD, having
> installed it on the hard drive, the default directory on entering terminal
> mode is displayed as [~].  This is actually /home/knoppix.  NOTE THAT THE
> DIRECTORY STRUCTURE WITH THE HARD DRIVE INSTALLATION IS NOT THE SAME AS ON
> THE LIVE CD.  Failure to recognize this will lead to unending confusion.
> Unless you are a developer you should stick to one or the other; Live CD
> or HD install; not flip/flop between the two.  I have found NOTHING that
> can be done with Live CD that can't be done with the hard drive
> installation.  On the other hand, there are restrictions in the Live CD
> mode that are absent in a permanent hard drive installation.
>
> When in permanent hard drive installation mode, the default /home/knoppix
> directory contains:
> Desktop
> S80w3szlinrad and possible S80w3szlinrad modified [depending on CD version
> downloaded]
> linradstart
> none
> svgalib-1.9.21 [dir]
> lin
> linrad-01.33 [dir]
> oss [dir]
> tmp
>
> YOU SHOULD NOT BE MAKING A PERMANENT HARD DRIVE INSTALLATION unless you
> are prepared to spend a lot of time with Linux, and are willing to risk
> damage to the other operating systems on your drives if you make an error.
>
> /root contains image files for the Live CD, not the file folders found in
> /UNIONFS in the Live CD installation.
>
>>
>> Your first Live_CD version allows full usage of the Internet
>> services in graphics mode, but after the transfer to hard disk,
>> there is no detection any network cards (either HomePNA eth0
>> or Ethernet eth1); the fat penguin informs of no detectable
>> hardware for Network configuration.
>
>
> I do not know what happened to you here.  My hard drive installation had
> all of the network capability that I had with Live CD; things work
> perfectly.  Try going to Live CD and saving disk image and configuration
> as noted above, and then go into hard drive and see if things work.
>
> Or, go into live CD and make sure the network is working properly and then
> save image and configuration files as above, and then reinstall the hard
> disk version.
>
>
>>
>> Otherwise I got rid of the HomePNA startup problem through the
>> purchase of an A-link HomePNA-Ethernet converter, so that the
>> network looks as if it were a genuine 100 Mbit/s Ethernet. It
>> means that the PC needs to have an Ethernet port, which is
>> usually immediately recognized by the 2.6.x -kernels. However,
>> this will be only beneficial after the transfer of the W3SZ_
>> Live_CD will include all network features of Knoppix 3.8.1
>
>
> I didn't remove any of the network features.  Everything works here, and I
> am at a loss to explain why they don't work there, Zaba.
>
> 73,
>
> Roger
> W3SZ
>
> -- 
> Roger Rehr
> W3SZ
> http://www.qsl.net/w3sz







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