To: hsms@tree.net
From: Steve Harrison, Ko0u
Subject: SB16C Sound Boards Available
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 12:44:24 EST5EDT
Surplus Direct appears to have some SB16C sound boards in stock for $59.99
(internet price; "slightly higher" if you order by phone, I think); you can
peruse the specs at:
Surplus Direct
This is claimed to be a model CT2950 which, according to the Creative Labs
specifications for that model, has the Vibra 16C DSP chip. SB16 boards with
the Vibra16C DSP chip have generally performed well with all versions of
MSDSP and in all computer platforms of which I'm aware to date (however,
there is always a first time!). It *is* a PnP type, however; and you may
have to play some tricks to get it configured in some computers so it will
work properly with MSDSP. More details of these "tricks" are available from
Doug, VE5UF and myself. They involve inserting dummy "virtual" boards into
the CTCU or ICU PnP configuration setup program so that addresses, IRQs and
DMAs which you do *not* want assigned to the sound board appear to already
be in use, thus forcing CTCU/ICU to assign what you want.
Also, note that the currently-available Creative Labs Sound Blaster 16
WavEffects (sic) boards, models CT417x, *are* usable with all versions of
MSDSP. The main problem is this board may not work properly in some
motherboards due to having to use DMA1 (which seems to be assigned by some
motherboards for other hardware). At least one MSDSP alpha tester has been
unable to make a SB16X work in a 586-160 MHz motherboard. But I have one
working very nicely in my ASUS VX97 motherboard although I had to play some
games and tricks to get it configured and working properly with MSDSP. I
also had to devote IRQ5, normally used for LPT2, to the SB16X; this can be a
problem for some folks.
I believe Surplus Direct is the same company as Surplus Software Sales,
which appears to also be selling the same sound board at the same price.
Both companies are apparently subsidiaries of Egghead Computer. I have not
dealt with them so have no idea of their reliability or reputation.
If anybody else runs across a source of the older SB16C boards (these are
*not* advertised as "WavEffects" types), please post the information here;
it may help your next new grid to get on the air tomorrow!
73, Steve Ko0U/1
------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOO-----------------------------
From: Mark Brown, KB0PYO
To: Jason Baack
CC: hsms@tree.net
Subject: Re: [HSMS] SB16C Sound Boards Available
Hi All,
You can get sb16 oem cards at:
SB16 OEM
(or 800-615-0888) for $37.
Mark
ps: they have pretty good prices on other computer hardware also & no I don't
work for them, just buy lots of computer hardware at work.
--------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 01:39:14 +0000
To: Mark Brown Steve Harrison, Ko0u/1
From: Steve Harrison, Ko0u/1
Subject: Re: [HSMS] SB16C Sound Boards Available
Cc: Jason Baack , hsms@tree.net
At 05:51 PM 03/19/98 -0600, Mark Brown wrote:
>Hi All
> You can get sb16 oem cards at http://www.web-smiths.com/csmiths (or
>800-615-0888) for $37.
> Mark
Just be certain that you know what you are getting! SB16X WavEffects boards
are very plentiful in OEM packages at the computer swapmeets but I haven't
seen any SB16C boards since late December.
The difference is that the older (and apparently obsolete) SB16C with the
Vibra16C DSP chip has, so far as MSDSP is concerned, worked in more
machines, and been somewhat easier to set up (even PnP versions in non-PnP
machines), than the SB16X has been for all of the two of us who've gotten
stuck with it (one of us succeeded after a LOT of hemming and hawing, the
other could not). The SB16X board is a model CT4170, CT4171 or any others
in the CT417x series, and has a Vibra16XV DSP chip instead of the older
Vibra16C chip.
But not enough of us have been able to test either board type with the new
alpha version of MSDSP; so none of the alpha testers are certain that as
far as the alpha version is concerned, there really is any advantage of one
board over the other; it's just that three people with SB16C boards had no
trouble with making things work regardless what version MSDSP they tried.
You can access the Creative Labs web site and look for the technical
specifications pages for 16-bit Sound Blaster boards if you'd like to
research these things; there must be over 50 different models of 16-bit
Sound Blasters produced by CL so far!
73, Steve Ko0U/1
--------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----------------------
To: "Jack O'Mara" , "hsms@tree.net"
From: Steve Harrison, Ko0u/1
Subject: Re: [HSMS] Mouse Problems
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 18:40:40 EST5EDT
At 10:33 PM 3/19/98 +0000, Jack O'Mara wrote:
Hi Folks
My first try on this reflector. I have the MSDSP software running and Im
using the SB16 sound card. My problem is when I move the mouse pointer into
the area on the screen where the audio to be recorded is displayed to start
the recording the mouse almost locks up.
Yes, the mouse slows down drastically in both version 0.34 and 0.51. This
has been fixed in the new alpha versions. The only real workaround is to
remember to move the mouse across the screen without going into the
recording area.
I also have the problem of the audio channels switching back and forth. Tx
and Rx audio swap places.
This is an inherent problem with 0.49 and 0.51, and has also been cured in
the new alpha version (although the channels have been swapped from the
default settings in 0.51; that is, the left channel in the new version is
now the TX output while the right channel is the playback output).
Many of us built interface boxes with toggle switches which you could flip
to interchange the channels when they came out swapped. But soon, we began
discovering that it was just as quick and easy to simply stop the playback
by typing S, and restart it by typing P or I (I is used to start playback
from the pick pointer location and is normally used rather than P since P
starts from the beginning of the buffer, which can be many seconds before
the actual ping itself).
I think both of these problems, and many others, were discussed in Shel's
article telling how to use MSDSP. This article applies only to versions from
0.51 and earlier, of course, since the new alpha version(s) has too many
changes to note here.
And no, we STILL have not heard when the alpha version will be released as a
beta!
73, Steve KOoU/1
------------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOO-------------------
Reply-To: Brad Pioveson - W9FX
Surplus Direct has, according to the person I spoke with today, 'hundreds'
of SB16C's in stock. I ordered one by phone this morning. $59.99 plus
shipping and insurance. The CL number for the board, quoted to me by the
operator who took my order is CT2950. The unit they're selling is an OEM
version (white box) and comes with software on a 3.5" diskette.
Surplus Direct's telephone number, for anybody that's interested, is
800-753-7877. The stock number for the board, according to the flyer from
which I ordered, is S07686.
And, no, I don't work for them -- I'm just anxious to get my own HSMS
station on the air and have lots of suitably equipped folks out there to work...
73 de Brad W9FX EM57mx
------------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-----------------
Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 22:05:52 -0600
To: hsms@tree.net
From: Doug Freestone Doug Freestone, VE5UF
At 09:03 PM 3/19/98 -0600, Mark Brown wrote:
>Hi Steve
> I have one of the vibra16 chipset boards in my pentium 150, works fine on
>receive & so far has tested ok on tx. I would be interested in the bios &
>chipset of the motherboards that are giving problems, also what processor is
>being used. Might be able to find what works with what!
> 73
> Mark
The readership is growing rapidly, and the current focus is on getting new
stations up and running with a variety of sound cards and computer systems.
As Mark suggested, it would be valuable for all concerned to hear what works
and what doesn't. To that end, more info is needed in every case posted
recently here. It would really be helpful to have additional info about
your system like:
Operating system... DOS 6, DOS 7, Win3.x or Win95a, b, or ??
CPU chip... P200MMX, 486DX4-100, or whatever it is
BIOS... Vendor and version/date
Installed memory... 8MB, 16MB, etc
Sound Card... Vendor Name, Model number, DSP chip(exact P/N)
Display System... VGA, SVGA etc. and video card make/model
Also *very* helpful is a copy of your Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files.
(You can delete any lines considered "personal")
With few exceptions, all of the programs designed for HSCW Tx or Rx are
first and foremost DOS programs. Some run just fine under old and new
Windows OSs and some are absolute dogs. It is strongly suggested that
you first try to get the program to run under DOS only - like it was
designed to do. This typically means installing and learning how to use
the DOS support tools provided by the sound card vendor. Then, after
it runs successfully, you can try it under whatever version of Windows
you have. Under Windows, be prepared for almost *anything* to happen.
Due to its greater range of 'user customization', Win95 is especially
vulnerable to comparatively bizarre behavior from one system to the next.
But, those customization features can often be utilized to get a stubborn
program to run where it wouldn't have a chance under Win3.x.
I notice Web-smiths also have ESS cards at really good prices. I'm
certain someone posted something here about a system with an ESS card,
but I can't locate the item. (Or am I imagining that??)
Anyway...
Mark, how 'bout you start the survey by letting us know the details of
your system which you've said is now working as best you can tell.
--
Doug VE5UF in DO61ov
--------------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO---------------
Jason Baack wrote:
> To: hsms@tree.net
> From: Steve Harrison, Ko0u/1
> Subject: SB16C Sound Boards Available
> Date: Thu, 19 Mar 98 12:44:24 EST5EDT
>
> Surplus Direct appears to have some SB16C sound boards in stock for $59.99
> (internet price; "slightly higher" if you order by phone, I think); you can
> peruse the specs at
> http://www.surplusdirect.com/wc.sd?DF33680JNYV03981~DisplayItem~SO7686~H
>
> This is claimed to be a model CT2950 which, according to the Creative Labs
> specifications for that model, has the Vibra 16C DSP chip. SB16 boards with
> the Vibra16C DSP chip have generally performed well with all versions of
> MSDSP and in all computer platforms of which I'm aware to date (however,
> there is always a first time!). It *is* a PnP type, however; and you may
> have to play some tricks to get it configured in some computers so it will
> work properly with MSDSP. More details of these "tricks" are available from
> Doug, VE5UF and myself. They involve inserting dummy "virtual" boards into
> the CTCU or ICU PnP configuration setup program so that addresses, IRQs and
> DMAs which you do *not* want assigned to the sound board appear to already
> be in use, thus forcing CTCU/ICU to assign what you want.
>
> Also, note that the currently-available Creative Labs Sound Blaster 16
> WavEffects (sic) boards, models CT417x, *are* usable with all versions of
> MSDSP. The main problem is this board may not work properly in some
> motherboards due to having to use DMA1 (which seems to be assigned by some
> motherboards for other hardware). At least one MSDSP alpha tester has been
> unable to make a SB16X work in a 586-160 MHz motherboard. But I have one
> working very nicely in my ASUS VX97 motherboard although I had to play some
> games and tricks to get it configured and working properly with MSDSP. I
> also had to devote IRQ5, normally used for LPT2, to the SB16X; this can be a
> problem for some folks.
>
> I believe Surplus Direct is the same company as Surplus Software Sales,
> which appears to also be selling the same sound board at the same price.
> Both companies are apparently subsidiaries of Egghead Computer. I have not
> dealt with them so have no idea of their reliability or reputation.
>
> If anybody else runs across a source of the older SB16C boards (these are
> *not* advertised as "WavEffects" types), please post the information here;
> it may help your next new grid to get on the air tomorrow!
>
> 73, Steve Ko0U/1
--------------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO-------------
Reply-To: Mark Brown
Hi All
You can get sb16 oem cards at http://www.web-smiths.com/csmiths (or
800-615-0888) for $37.
Mark
ps: they have pretty good prices on other computer hardware also & no I don't
work for them, just buy lots of computer hardware at work.
---------------------------------------------OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 05:13:18 +0000
To: Doug Freestone
From: Steve Harrison, ko0u/1
Subject: Re: SURVEY TIME (was: Re: [HSMS] SB16C Sound Boards Available)
Cc: hsms@tree.net
Doug asked:
>Operating system... DOS 6, DOS 7, Win3.x or Win95a, b, or ??
>CPU chip... P200MMX, 486DX4-100, or whatever it is
>BIOS... Vendor and version/date
>Installed memory... 8MB, 16MB, etc
>Sound Card... Vendor Name, Model number, DSP chip(exact P/N)
>Display System... VGA, SVGA etc. and video card make/model
>
>Also *very* helpful is a copy of your Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files.
>(You can delete any lines considered "personal")
Here's mine:
OS: DOS 6.22/WFW3.11
CPU: ASUS VX97 mainboard, Cyrix 6x86L-PR166+ overclocked to 200 MHz
BIOS: Award Modular BIOS v. 4.51PG, 04/09/97
Memory: 32 MB
Sound Board: CL SB16X, model CT4171; set to address 220h, IRQ5 (LPT2
disabled in BIOS), DMA1, DMA1 (no typo, both DMAs set to 1)
Display: El Cheapo Jaton V67P w/ 4MB (available at computer shows
everywhere for ~$50); 800 x 600; generic SVGA monitor (slowly dying; or
else, I'm slowly going blind)
Other: Hitachi x12 CDROM, I forget the model, MUST be disabled for MSDSP to
run
Modem: Zoom V42BIS 14.4, set for COM2 IRQ3
Mouse: Mouse Systems Tracball II on COM1, IRQ4 (I don't like this one
much; think the driver is Logitech-compatible as it won't run with a
MS-compatible driver)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
AUTOEXEC.BAT: If youse guys laugh, I'll never show this to you again!
rem C:\DOS\MSCDEX.EXE /D:MSCD007 /E /M:8
SET CTCM=C:\CTCM
C:\CTCM\CTCU /S /W=C:\WINDOWS
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H1 P300 T6
SET SOUND=C:\SB16
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
rem C:\SB16\DIAGNOSE /S /W=C:\WINDOWS
C:\SB16\MIXERSET /P /Q
C:\McAfee\ViruScan\SCANPM.EXE C:\
@IF ERRORLEVEL 1 PAUSE
rem pause
LH /L:0;1,45568 /S C:\DOS\SMARTDRV.EXE
:START_BOOT
ECHO [0;1;33;44m
@ECHO OFF
SET BREAK=ON
SET VERIFY=OFF
PROMPT $e[31;44m$p$e[33;44;1m$g$e[36;44m
PATH C:\WINDOWS;C:\DOS;C:\BAT;c:\NORTON;C:\EESOF;c:\mcafee;c:\mscmouse
SET TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP
c:\norton\tm %0_%1_%2_%3_%4_ @ /L >> c:\dos\boot.log
copy c:\dos\boot.log c:\boot.log
:HARDWARE_SETTINGS
C:\DOS\mode con rate=32 delay=1
C:\DOS\MODE CON LINES=50 COLS=80
:MISCELLANEOUS
SET TZ=HST0HDT
SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\IEXPLORE;C:\MCAFEE\VIRUSCAN;c:\language\zip
set ieppp=C:\IEXPLORE
set pctcp=C:\IEXPLORE\pctcp.shv
SET PATH=%PATH%;c\plugplay\icu
LH /L:1,23456 C:\MSCMOUSE\gmouse.com
rem LH c:\mouse\mouse.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CONFIG.SYS: Same caveat as above!
DEVICE=C:\DOS\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS
BUFFERS=60,0
FILES=60
LASTDRIVE=Z
FCBS=16,0
dos=HIGH,UMB
DEVICE=C:\CTCM\CTCM.EXE
break on
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,12048 =C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
REM DOS PARAMETERS
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS\ /E:2112 /p
STACKS=9,256
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,9072 =C:\DOS\ANSI.SYS /X
rem install=c:\dos\share.exe /f:5100 /l:500
rem device=c:\dos\interlnk.exe
DEVICEHIGH /L:1,4560 =C:\WINDOWS\IFSHLP.SYS
rem DEVICEHIGH /L:1,23664 =\DEV\HIT-IDE.SYS /D:MSCD007 /N:1 /T:2
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Notes on above:
1. Note the CDROM is disabled in the first line of AUTOEXEC; I found
diabling it in CONFIG.SYS did not help. My CDROM absolutely MUST be
disabled for ANY version of MSDSP to run!
2. Note that CL's DIAGNOSE utility is diabled. If you do not, then DIAGNOSE
will automatically reconfigure your PnP boards to settings that will
probably not allow your sound board to work with MSDSP. Use CTCU to
configure your PnP boards manually instead.
3. I know; I have too many PATH= statements! Too lazy to shorten them...
4. SHARE.EXE MUST be disabled or MSDSP 0.51 will not run on this system.
But my 386DX40, with the same operating system and nearly the same AUTOEXCE
and CONFIG files, runs 0.51 just fine with SHARE enabled!
5. Note the last line of CONFIG.SYS is a driver for the CDROM; disabling
this one did not allow MSDSP to run; I just haven't taken out the "rem"
statement yet. Only the statement calling MSCDEX in AUTOEXEC.BAT needs to
be disabled on my system.
I have *not* tried my old SB16C, model CT2961, board with this setup; it
might work if I changed the DMAs to 3 and 5 for low and high DMAs,
respectively.
73, Steve Ko0U/1
--------------------------------------------- OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO------------
Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 12:01:33 +0000
To: "Paul Kelley N1BUG"
From: Steve Harrison Steve Harrison, Ko0u/1
Subject: Re: [HSMS] SB16C Sound Boards Available
Cc: hsms@tree.net
>I feel that I must comment on this for the record.
The answer is no; that's the main difference between the two. The SB16X
just wouldn't work in my system on anything OTHER than DMA 1 while the
SB16C would work with ANYTHING, which is why I keep harping on why I don't
like the SB16XV.
That doesn't mean your mileage won't vary, of course.
73, Steve Ko0U/1